Alephwyr
@alephwyr
A lot of my theory is scattered at random in social media posts. I think autism is in some forms just the neurotypical social instinct but that formed a feedback loop with other domains. So an autistic interfaces with their chosen obsession using the same cognitive tools allistics use to interface with each other.
Mark
@markfishman
@saymore please!
I identify as neurodiverse but would love to learn more about autism specifically
Author Reply ❌
Farcaster Comments
Cameron Armstrong
@cameron
⭐ Threadstarter
How many of y’all have ever worked with someone who never went to college?
Alephwyr
@alephwyr
Most of my jobs. Food prep, cashier, gas station attendant, grocery bagger. Didn't start working "civilized" jobs until fairly recently and am still sort of out of place there despite having spent more time in college than almost anyone.
Cameron Armstrong
@cameron
I hear that.
The unwritten rules of tech that you miss when working “uncivilized” jobs or growing up outside a specific social strata are really hard to parse as an outsider.
Glad you’re here 🫡
Alephwyr
@alephwyr
Somehow, developing lucid paranoid schizophrenia after learning to mask my autism balanced out my autism while allowing me to retain a poker face that prevents people from realizing I'm insane. I am always trying to understand people in terms of economies of attention, hierarchy, arbitrary pet peeves: slow, deliberate
steph
@steph
🙋🏻♀️ brilliant guy too, data engineer
ccarella
@ccarella.eth
So many of my favorite engineering and design collaborators did not go to college, including my favorite two.
Alephwyr
@alephwyr
It was hugely helpful to work with mentally handicapped people for a while. Smart people have all the same basic behaviors as mentally handicapped people, just a bigger vocabulary and more autonomy. They aren't used to being policed, so you have to be even gentler ironically
Cameron Armstrong
@cameron
This is fascinating
Cameron Armstrong
@cameron
This is even more fascinating.
Have you written this out in longer form?
Cameron Armstrong
@cameron
🔥🔥🔥
You love to see it.
Do you think it’s a factor in their work style?
Cameron Armstrong
@cameron
What was his path?
(If you remember)
Alephwyr
@alephwyr
I've written down some of the general perspectives that came out of it. The big thing is my four part blog post "Towards a pseudo formalization of a bad attitude" on Dancefighterredux.WordPress.com and later alephwyr.substack.com. But as for more targeted introspection not really, not yet.
Alephwyr
@alephwyr
I don't really know what schizophrenia is. I am not a normal schizophrenic. I am like a much dumber and less useful John Nash or Phillip K Dick. All I know is that I can mask my schizophrenia symptoms pretty effectively using techniques that wouldn't work unless people had pretty massive epistemic holes.
ccarella
@ccarella.eth
Hard to say. Probably 100% of the people working with them would have no idea. Being close with them I can say they are definitely more problem solving oriented than many others I’ve worked with. Not sure if that’s the lack of Uni brainwashing or more likely just the people I gravitate towards
Cameron Armstrong
@cameron
Do you think allistic folks can’t interface with non-social domains using that same interface?
Alephwyr
@alephwyr
I really don't know. Guessing wildly I would say the issue seems to be that Autistics bond primarily to non social domains as their "native" frame of reference, and allistics to social domains. Observing non verbal autistic kids, I've seen them perform recursion when playing, so they should be able to speak, but can't
vincent
@pixel
I understand none of what you write, but it's extremely compelling. Strange feeling.
craabit
@craabit
I never went to college or university.
kbc - q/dau
@kbc
Did the full path (have a PhD) and I’m indifferent if my kids attend.
I’m pushing them for a gap year or working first or just do something else than sit in a seat and listen to a person talk. Got in-laws in Australia so they might do the work-travel visa there
Cameron Armstrong
@cameron
Sounds like a great experience tbh
Cameron Armstrong
@cameron
What’s it like working with people that have?
craabit
@craabit
Never asked myself that question. Honestly, at my age it's like wondering whether or not someone went to high-school. It's irrelevant imo.
kbc - q/dau
@kbc
The PhD? One of the loneliest jobs ever. At least in the social science. It's you & the data. You specialize in an area & need to find a community of people who get you. Met PhDs and postdocs on anti-depressants & who had panic attacks. Heard of profs in elite universities throwing chairs...Oh and pay is shit.
Cameron Armstrong
@cameron
Super interesting - do you mind if I ask how old you are?
jonwalch
@jonwalch
Yeah I worked a ton of odd jobs when I was younger
Cameron Armstrong
@cameron
Haha I meant the Australia period.
Emphatically not the phd (but I don’t have one so I’m not into throwing stones there)
Cameron Armstrong
@cameron
Here and there?
steph
@steph
sadly cannot remember, but self taught.. worked his way through newsrooms
I had a similar path tbh, all it takes is for one person to give you a shot 💫 (& a good learning environment)
craabit
@craabit
49. But I hear I look more like 39 on a good day. 😝
Cameron Armstrong
@cameron
Nice - what was the context?
Cameron Armstrong
@cameron
Have you lived in Spain your whole life?
Mike
@mc
Some guys were in the military
Others when I worked as a cashier
Generally found non-college employees to work harder and exhibit more initiative
Some college grads dumber than a sack of hammers
But many college grads incredibly smart, driven, and focused on the 'why'
Mike
@mc
Re: military, I was a civilian, but often worked with officers and enlisted
Ben
@0xbenersing.eth
Thanks for sharing your experience with us.
Based on the language you use, it seems that you attach your identity to your diagnosis (e.g., "I am not a normal schizophrenic").
Is that intentional? If so, is there a reason?
Cameron Armstrong
@cameron
Thanks for expanding!
Tbh this wasn’t a comment on any individual’s ability and more about trying to get a sense for the social divides in Farcaster
Mike
@mc
Didn't take it as such, but felt like an opportunity to foment some discussion
Very interested in this question of university education for my kids
Ben
@0xbenersing.eth
Highly recommend taking a gap year.
craabit
@craabit
Only for 2 years. Before that 6 years in Canada. Before that 10 years in Austria. Before that 30 or so years in Germany. And somewhere in-between there a year in a Texan high school if that counts. 🤔
franco
@francos.eth
Staff engineer at my last startup. Super smart and hardworking guy. He did however had this insane urge to always be proving that he was a hardcore engineer and that made him kind of toxic.
zom
@zom
A disproportionate number of the most capable people I know fall into this category
Cameron Armstrong
@cameron
Of this group of yours…
How many had the opportunity to go and decided not to vs never had the opportunity?
Cameron Armstrong
@cameron
yea a career-long of feeling like you don’t belong can definitely cause that
Alec Urtu
@alecurtu
A lot that never finished.
Cameron Armstrong
@cameron
To chase Thiel fellowships or something else?
Max Jackson : mxjxn
@tokenart.eth
Old friend and former coworker is an accomplished software engineer who dropped out of HS and taught himself.
franco
@francos.eth
Definitely, we bonded over this. I was a lot younger than he was and I did go to college but I majored in psychology. We were the only non engineers in the engineering team and also the only ones using things like emacs/vim, esoteric PLs like haskell/ocaml and arch as an OS to compensate for that fact lmao
Alec Urtu
@alecurtu
Na mostly musicians that had to go on tour.
Tarun Sachdeva
@tarun
Many. The later you get in your career, it matters even less. You realize the instincts you develop in early adulthood are more than enough to succeed. And ofc the learning never stops, etc.
IMO, the strongest bull case for IRL college is the compounding value of the (personal + professional) network you build there
osama
@osama
Quite a few. I respect their team spirit, grit and willingness to get hands dirty
Cameron Armstrong
@cameron
Nice - how are they doing?
Cameron Armstrong
@cameron
Haha gotta gain your advantage somehow - thanks for sharing 🫡
Cameron Armstrong
@cameron
What context, my man?
Cameron Armstrong
@cameron
How are they doing now?
Alephwyr
@alephwyr
Identity is mostly performative IMHO. It begins with the assertion of identity.
Max Jackson : mxjxn
@tokenart.eth
Seasoned software architect who leads a dept and just released a book
Cameron Armstrong
@cameron
You love to see it 🥲
Corbin Page
@corbin.eth
Quite a few. I think college is generally optional for dev / design folks if they have a body of work I can review instead.
Product / BizOps / Marketing I look more for college credentials for an indication of commitment and work ethic. Not perfect signals but they are parameters.
Cameron Armstrong
@cameron
I agree with your characterization, but only with the caveat that it’s true if you understand that the various paths actually exist.
You can find out by intermeshing of social groups in school or by being born into a strata that’s already aware.
The “this could be you” awareness gap is the biggest one imo
llihwerd
@llihwerd
gap years spent working or somethinf for 12-18 months is soooooo underrated
llihwerd
@llihwerd
honestly a lot of the time you cant even tell. especially in crypto with so many ways to learn countless hard & specialized skills.
i usually dont ask/care unless someone wants to tall about it tbh. so many more interesting aspects of people other than their formal education 🤙
kbc - q/dau
@kbc
Did you do it? I regret going directly from high school to university. Might not have made different choices but would have been more sure about myself
llihwerd
@llihwerd
I didn't take a break directly after but two years after I graduated high school I dropped out of college and did what most people probably would do during a gap year and discovered my current career and I have been working and incredibly happy since then with no degree 
Ralph Old Dad
@withere
I never went to college
Sterling Schuyler
@sterschuyler
🔹 juice shop: I worked in admin office, coworkers in production + retail
🔹govt marketing: I worked as marketer, colleague was a former soldier turned graphic designer
🔹 VC: I worked as copywriter, GP was high school only
Daniel Lombraña
@teleyinex.eth
Several people that I admire have not attended college.
Cameron Armstrong
@cameron
Interesting! Was the govt marketing in the Netherlands?
Cameron Armstrong
@cameron
Glad you’re here 🔥
Cameron Armstrong
@cameron
What year was that?
Cameron Armstrong
@cameron
From what era?
(If you don’t mind me asking)
Sher Chaudhary
@sher
Our CTO attended state school and dropped freshman year. Would say he’s stronger than most anybody from the Waterloo or MIT camp we interviewed
Cameron Armstrong
@cameron
What’s his area of expertise?
Sher Chaudhary
@sher
Early engineer at a tech startup, and carried them through IPO over the last decade
Just asked him how he would describe his area of expertise. He said:
“building shit, i dunno”
Onium.eth
@onium
Agreed. Also, cool seeing you here lol. I've stumbled on more than a few people I know.
Cameron Armstrong
@cameron
😩😩🫡
Love that
Sterling Schuyler
@sterschuyler
An American working on an American base in Germany. He had been stationed there, got out, got married to a German, and continued working for the US govt
Cameron Armstrong
@cameron
A tale as old as time.
Thank you for sharing 🫡
Cassie Heart
@cassie
I’m a college dropout. I’ve worked with people who graduated, people who dropped or never went. Higher ed gives some people the env or connections they need to grow into their career, some people are autodidacts or just don’t gel with academia, but I’ve seen zero correlation of either with their capabilities.
Cassie Heart
@cassie
On rare occasion I’ve seen elitism from some Ivy League grads, but usually that’s at lower level roles and they grow up pretty quickly and realize the world is too small for that kind of shit.
Lajos Deme
@silentrunner.eth
My thoughts exactly
Renjith Nair
@rn
They are usually wicked smart . I usually assume they are an order of magnitude smarter than someone who is at the same place with a degree
Cameron Armstrong
@cameron
All valid and generally agree - that said there’s a significant subset of opportunities in the economy that are gatekept by the life paths people have the fortune to take.
Cameron Armstrong
@cameron
Why do you think that is?
FarCon
@farcon
At lbry we averaged one college degree per person because half of us had 2 and half had none.
pugson
@pugson
i don't ask cause it doesn't matter
Connor McCormick q/dau
@nor
I think the lack of credentials forces you to be.
Plus there's probably a bit of a filter at play: If college degree and problem solving both influence skill, and you condition on not going to college then they'll probably be v skilled.
For the same reason uglier actors are the better ones (no offense Russell Crow)
Connor McCormick q/dau
@nor
idk if that makes sense
Renjith Nair
@rn
It’s 2x hard imo to get the opportunities in the beginning . I am not talking about people dropping out of hardware etc but some one who finished an avg high school but didn’t go to college . Dropping out is cool now but wasn’t the case until recently .
mohit
@ma
Several. And few who’ve attended college but never finished. Usually the most effective people with the best work ethic.
Alephwyr
@alephwyr
It's really just a hunch or intuition. It's based on observing that the confluence of autism and low grade schizophrenia traditionally manifests as shamanism, which is the personification of nature and reasoning about nature as if it were a person. Also that there's no such thing as a meaningless relationship
Alephwyr
@alephwyr
Yet allistics view autistic understanding of mechanical relationships as meaningless, and autistics view allistic understanding of social relationships as meaningless.
Fran
@0x99fran
I found the PhD to be very different from bachelor’s or masters. At the end of the day no one “needs” a phd. its hard to argue that the PhD leads to more career or financial success. So you really need some other intrinsic motivation to get one. See both highly driven people and very anxious people with phds.
SydneyJason
@sydneyjason
Several of the best engineers I worked with never went to college. Self taught, wicked smart, scrappy thinkers. Taught me as a manager to evaluate the intellect/fit, not the resume…
Daniel Lombraña
@teleyinex.eth
They are mostly from the 70s to 80s
kbc - q/dau
@kbc
It depends on your industry and culture (did research on it) In some countries, PhDs give you better career options. Some do it because they want to solve a societal problem & then realise they can only contribute a tiny answer.
For teaching in uni it’s required (which is another joke…)