Devin Elliot
@notdevin.eth
We can do this right now, merchants want to settle first without having to discuss crypto with users. Our long tail is converting their users which has obvious advantages as you point out
m_j_r
@m-j-r.eth
@saymore what do you think has improved with wallet experience recently? and what are the major challenges/blockers that might be solved at a protocol level?
Author Reply ✅
Devin Elliot
@notdevin.eth
The issue I seem to run into with wallets at the protocol level are the implementations or the ability to implement. We've built dev tools from the protocols. Nobody I know outside of people here on farcaster will tolerate ANY instance of crypto that is user facing. There is also a wall of cognitive dissonance...
Devin Elliot
@notdevin.eth
both user facing and developer/crypto native facing. A user says they want 1 click, most of the time 1 click really means 3, google login and the like is basically 3 but they better look familiar or they 3 feels like 6 instead of 1
The devs are the opposite, they think it's easy but put dozens of new things in view..
Devin Elliot
@notdevin.eth
Like the new SIWE modal 🤮If I put that modal in view of my customers its a 0% conversion guaranteed.
But as @pugson triggered me on this week, it's not like a protocol like walletconnect makes any of this even remotely reasonable. @smartprofiles.eth asked me if we could implement a simple dropdown...
Devin Elliot
@notdevin.eth
for something that would make a ton of sense, I had to say I have no idea if I can even get the apis from wc to do that...why?
We might need a new protocol, or we might need one that's more reasonably maintained, I don't know. I do know it can't say crypto anywhere for the masses.
One last example, our merchants...
Devin Elliot
@notdevin.eth
settle in USDC, and the customer's pay in USDC but as far as the users care they're paying with their card. Operationally we need to inform them correctly on their receipt for, reasons, so the receipt the user is emailed says USDC. The merchant asked for that to be removed, it was the ONLY mention of crypto
Devin Elliot
@notdevin.eth
How broken is crypto? I tried to answer on this awesome service from @cameron but my wallet could only read the QR code as invalid 😮💨
Devin Elliot
@notdevin.eth
Whats fucking AWESOME about the potential here, our merchants own their services, they own their money, AND they are willing to tolerate certain levels of oddities and breaks...for now. They will push through the BS to get access to the upside because as soon as they use it they get it. That's what we are fighting for
Devin Elliot
@notdevin.eth
For the merchant, the realization that the wallet they own now controls their account and I the builder need to ask their permission to be let in, this doesn't go unnoticed. They can kick me out with the push of a button or let me in remotely to help. They can see where their money is at all times. Knowledge is freedom
Devin Elliot
@notdevin.eth
There is a lot of working being done to improve the account structures, some of it is misguided, SC/AA wallets without EOA functionality is DOA imo, you just recreated the same problems as google but without regulatory oversight != better
A 2nd shoutout, but @smartprofiles.eth has more eyes on this than anyone i know
Devin Elliot
@notdevin.eth
I love what silence labs is doing in terms of further identifying the distinctions of the formats which imply significant differences in utility https://www.silencelaboratories.com/
https://www.silencelaboratories.com/blog-posts/redefining-the-nomenclature-of-web3-custody
Devin Elliot
@notdevin.eth
We spent 8 months going through DD with banks and other providers, every time someone brought up crypto I just said no, we're using stable coins NOT crypto. Everybody bought this straight up. It takes very little effort convince someone of crypto when you reframe it as stable. Optics are everything and reframing solves
Devin Elliot
@notdevin.eth
🥲
I'm on ios. Is it a universal link vs a deeplink or vice versa?
Devin Elliot
@notdevin.eth
try this link, this is wc2
https://test.storefrontpay.app/merchant/profile
(it's testnet so you need to be on test and it's running avax fuji at the moment)
Devin Elliot
@notdevin.eth
wallet app, and that is weird, let me see if i can get something off the console
Devin Elliot
@notdevin.eth
oh damn! 🤦🏼♂️Is that a newer change for WC? I assumed I would need my wallet to sign. I haven't been able to keep current on WC things since I'm behind on my own shit
Devin Elliot
@notdevin.eth
I follow these guys but not familiar with their work yet, I'd love to learn more though and I agree with you, accounts should be 1st class citizens of our personally owned devices
Devin Elliot
@notdevin.eth
Let's hop on a chat a share notes! I'd love to run you through what we've been working on and whats coming. I don't want to duplicate other's work, I want solve some core issues I have as a human and then move on
Farcaster Comments
m_j_r
@m-j-r.eth
⭐ Threadstarter
everything is coming together...
I think there's further composability with account abstraction. would be very interesting to see an ERC-6551 project (or a variant for ERC-1155) build between these.
m_j_r
@m-j-r.eth
that is some 🎯 inspiration. wondering about the opposite end, now.
besides something like shopify NFTs:
what's the cleanest way that a debit/credit payment for an independent good/service passes to USDC?
Dan Romero
@dwr.eth
cc @z-a who is my stablecoin expert
Mac Budkowski 🥝
@macbudkowski
IMO top USDC feature is that L2 transfers are basically free vs. Stripe's 2%+. And you get money instantly vs. waiting for a few days.
If you told e-commerce with $1B revenue and razor thin margins that they can increase their margins by 2% and improve cashflow, that's a superstrong value proposition.
Mac Budkowski 🥝
@macbudkowski
So I'd say the most interesting use case would be buyers paying with USDC and e-commerce being able to cash out to fiat :)
Devin Elliot
@notdevin.eth
Us. We’re doing thousands a day right now and have been for a couple months
m_j_r
@m-j-r.eth
interesting, but it's just easy for an uncommon segment. I think that unless one figures out the cleanest, frictionless way for a normie customer to go about their business with the payment they already have, then it's an exercise in a more polite HFSP.
Mac Budkowski 🥝
@macbudkowski
I'm bullish on Gnosis crypto cards.
If shops said: pay with this card and get a discount or free fast delivery or whatever makes sense economically given their cashflow & margin savings, there's a chance to adopt it :)
m_j_r
@m-j-r.eth
absolutely, if anything I think that people would definitely play along if their favorite app, e.g. Whatsapp, integrates a prepaid card.
I'm just saying that while designing around FOMO/HFSP is viable, even profitable, it presumes an ambient interest when most of the world economy is content w/ mediocre rails instead.
Devin Elliot
@notdevin.eth
We’ve enabled self banking in the hundreds of thousands per month already as well and provide bill pay services out via ach
We also provide cards to our merchants so they can off-ramp themselves at any PoS terminal
The only thing holding us back is there are only 2.5 of us and we’re completely self funded
Devin Elliot
@notdevin.eth
The issue I seem to run into with wallets at the protocol level are the implementations or the ability to implement. We've built dev tools from the protocols. Nobody I know outside of people here on farcaster will tolerate ANY instance of crypto that is user facing. There is also a wall of cognitive dissonance...
Devin Elliot
@notdevin.eth
both user facing and developer/crypto native facing. A user says they want 1 click, most of the time 1 click really means 3, google login and the like is basically 3 but they better look familiar or they 3 feels like 6 instead of 1
The devs are the opposite, they think it's easy but put dozens of new things in view..
Devin Elliot
@notdevin.eth
Like the new SIWE modal 🤮If I put that modal in view of my customers its a 0% conversion guaranteed.
But as @pugson triggered me on this week, it's not like a protocol like walletconnect makes any of this even remotely reasonable. @accountless.eth asked me if we could implement a simple dropdown...
Devin Elliot
@notdevin.eth
for something that would make a ton of sense, I had to say I have no idea if I can even get the apis from wc to do that...why?
We might need a new protocol, or we might need one that's more reasonably maintained, I don't know. I do know it can't say crypto anywhere for the masses.
One last example, our merchants...
Devin Elliot
@notdevin.eth
settle in USDC, and the customer's pay in USDC but as far as the users care they're paying with their card. Operationally we need to inform them correctly on their receipt for, reasons, so the receipt the user is emailed says USDC. The merchant asked for that to be removed, it was the ONLY mention of crypto
Devin Elliot
@notdevin.eth
How broken is crypto? I tried to answer on this awesome service from @cameron but my wallet could only read the QR code as invalid 😮💨
Devin Elliot
@notdevin.eth
Whats fucking AWESOME about the potential here, our merchants own their services, they own their money, AND they are willing to tolerate certain levels of oddities and breaks...for now. They will push through the BS to get access to the upside because as soon as they use it they get it. That's what we are fighting for
Devin Elliot
@notdevin.eth
For the merchant, the realization that the wallet they own now controls their account and I the builder need to ask their permission to be let in, this doesn't go unnoticed. They can kick me out with the push of a button or let me in remotely to help. They can see where their money is at all times. Knowledge is freedom
Devin Elliot
@notdevin.eth
There is a lot of working being done to improve the account structures, some of it is misguided, SC/AA wallets without EOA functionality is DOA imo, you just recreated the same problems as google but without regulatory oversight != better
A 2nd shoutout, but @accountless.eth has more eyes on this than anyone i know
Devin Elliot
@notdevin.eth
I love what silence labs is doing in terms of further identifying the distinctions of the formats which imply significant differences in utility
m_j_r
@m-j-r.eth
the intuitive analogy I could see being made is "I have to allow 0.02% of my transaction to go to NK/SBF?". like it or not, the dual-use of traditional banking maybe be even worse than crypto, but they have generations of marketing, and stripe/apple pay/google pay is so smoothly displaced from that vibe.
Cameron Armstrong
@cameron
Really sorry about that.
On android?
Devin Elliot
@notdevin.eth
We spent 8 months going through DD with banks and other providers, every time someone brought up crypto I just said no, we're using stable coins NOT crypto. Everybody bought this straight up. It takes very little effort convince someone of crypto when you reframe it as stable. Optics are everything and reframing solves
m_j_r
@m-j-r.eth
imho, the work that @markus, @nc, & others are putting into the OS-level wallet could be a "1-click" (2/3) breeze with the right app calling that.
WC2 flow is absolutely a dealbreaker for me (though idc about aesthetic/convenience as a tester).
Devin Elliot
@notdevin.eth
🥲
I'm on ios. Is it a universal link vs a deeplink or vice versa?
Cameron Armstrong
@cameron
Oh that’s super weird.
It’s a deeplink iirc. Are you using the wallet app reader or your normal camera?
Devin Elliot
@notdevin.eth
try this link, this is wc2
(it's testnet so you need to be on test and it's running avax fuji at the moment)
Devin Elliot
@notdevin.eth
wallet app, and that is weird, let me see if i can get something off the console
Cameron Armstrong
@cameron
That’s the issue!
No wallet needed.
Just normal QR code 🫡
Devin Elliot
@notdevin.eth
oh damn! 🤦🏼♂️Is that a newer change for WC? I assumed I would need my wallet to sign. I haven't been able to keep current on WC things since I'm behind on my own shit
Cameron Armstrong
@cameron
So since WC is custodial they will sign and submit your approval to the hub for you without you needing to manually sign.
You just approve in app and you’re golden (this is shifting in the next few months though when they move signers onchain)
Devin Elliot
@notdevin.eth
I follow these guys but not familiar with their work yet, I'd love to learn more though and I agree with you, accounts should be 1st class citizens of our personally owned devices
m_j_r
@m-j-r.eth
I got a dedicated google pixel running ethOS, it's pretty nice. one of the leading projects in making the best possible UX in crypto (because it's system-level mobile). Apple could probably catch up at some point.
Devin Elliot
@notdevin.eth
Let's hop on a chat a share notes! I'd love to run you through what we've been working on and whats coming. I don't want to duplicate other's work, I want solve some core issues I have as a human and then move on
Mac Budkowski 🥝
@macbudkowski
have you submitted it to 🥝? :)
Devin Elliot
@notdevin.eth
I think I actually did awhile ago :)